Online Dating Over 40 with Amy Nobile
How to swipe right on the rest of your life with dating expert Amy Nobile
EPISODE 6
Amy Nobile is back for another episode, as she joins us again to discuss dating over 40. She touches on multiple topics - from setting up your dating profile, to figuring out first dates, how to banter, and much more.
Amy is the founder of LoveAmy.co, a dating concierge that specializes in building entire strategies for dating. She encourages women over 40 to set up healthy expectations for dating, to communicate clearly and boldly and to analyze who they are and who they’re looking to attract.
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Doryn Wallach:
Welcome to episode five of It's Not A Crisis, a podcast for women in their 40s seeking to navigate midlife's challenges while making the most of it. I am your host, Doryn Wallach, and today's episode is really, really fun. Before I tell you a little bit about it, I just wanted to, as usual, be super annoying and make sure that you are rating, subscribing and sharing the podcast with your friends and family, either on Facebook, Instagram or by text, whatever's easier for you. You can also find me on It's Not A Crisis Podcast on Instagram, as well as Facebook, where we have a group for questions and discussions.
You can email me at, itsnotacrisis@gmail.com, or subscribe to my newsletter at itsnotacrisis.com. Now, that that's out of the way, all that stuff is really important to me, so I appreciate it, but I just have to say it every time because that's what helps other women listen to the podcast. I hope everybody is doing well. And hopefully, today's episode is going to make you smile a little bit. In my very first episode, I had interviewed Amy because her latest book, Just When You're Comfortable in Your Own Skin, It Starts to Sag, was the inspiration behind my entire podcast, actually, starting this.
We had such a beautiful conversation about how this doesn't have to be a negative time in your life, this needs to be a positive time in your life. And I think that her book just made you feel not alone in all of this. I have gotten countless emails and messages from listeners about dating after 40, and this is not anything I know about. The last time I went on a date was in 1999 with my husband, so I had reached out to Amy to see if she wanted to come on the show again. This is a really fun episode. Even if you're not dating, you never know when you might need to date. The way that Amy runs her business is so smart and so great that if you're out there online dating, you are going to learn something from today's show.
Amy is a best-selling, Oprah-featured coauthor of four books, all designed to empower and inspire women at various stages of their lives. She's also the co-founder of ASH AMES, a company showcasing unique jewelry, handmade by various female artisans around the globe. Amy's latest venture is Love, Amy, a dating concierge service that marries the technology of modern day dating with a holistic view of human-to-human energy and connection.
Amy, I'm so happy that you're back on the show.
Amy Nobile:
I am too. Let's talk.
Doryn Wallach:
Yeah. So our first podcast, which was my very first podcast, was literally right before they started the quarantine. I was thinking about this, I think you were the last person I had interaction with in normal life. And I think we weren't even hugging at that point, right? I don't remember. I feel like we were still a little cautious.
Amy Nobile:
We were being cautious, but little did we know that that was it, after that, lockdown.
Doryn Wallach:
Yeah. Anyway, I'm not going to even talk about that because nobody wants to talk about that anymore.
Amy Nobile:
It's [inaudible 00:03:27].
Doryn Wallach:
[inaudible 00:03:27]. I'm doing this podcast today for the many women that have reached out to me. Clearly, this is something I know nothing about. The last time I was on a date was in 1999, like the stone ages, that was with my husband, and it was a blind date. And so, clearly I know nothing about online dating or dating in general. I don't even think I dated that much before I met my husband, but a friend once let me swipe her Bumble when we were out drinking one night and it-
Amy Nobile:
That's a very fun pass time for married folks.
Doryn Wallach:
It was so much fun. And I get to pick her matches and I started responding as her. I've actually done that for a few friends, but I can imagine it wouldn't be as much fun if this was actually my life and I was looking for a partner. I know that it's not easy for women to get back out there, or if you're just a single woman in your 40s in general, I would imagine it's not so easy. So I'm excited to have you on here, but I do need to preface this with, I know nothing but I'm excited to learn. I mean, who knows, my husband might kick me out and I might need you to save me.
Amy Nobile:
[crosstalk 00:04:30].
Doryn Wallach:
Hopefully not. Hopefully not.
Amy Nobile:
But no, I'm thrilled to be talking to you. I am living and breathing this, and it is, besides my children, the love of my life, this job. And I do feel like it's my true calling. And so it's a joy to be talking about it. And any wisdom I can bestow to any of my 40-plus angels out there, I'm happy to do so.
Doryn Wallach:
All right. So first tell me how you just... because you're like me, you've had a million businesses and done a million things. So, tell me how you decided to start the business and the concept and what makes you the expert to take over and do this for women?
Amy Nobile:
Well, I don't know. No, I'm kidding. No, no, no. So I am a serial entrepreneur, as you know, and I'm a four-time author. And in the course of writing the latest book called, Just When You're Comfortable in Your Own Skin, It Starts to Sag, and this latest book came out a few years ago. And in the course of writing this book, which is all about inspiring women to make conscious choices for their lives at 40-plus, and to look at the second half of their lives as like the better half, because it really can be. And in the course of interviewing hundreds of women and them talking about leaving their marriages, I knew that I had to make this very difficult, hardest thing I'd ever done, choice to leave my marriage of 20 years. We'd been together 26.
And there was nothing contentious going on. we had just become roommates, he's a great guy, and we're incredibly amicable even now, but I had to leave, and I did it. And I was tossed into the dating world after 26 years. And I would sit around with my gaggle of single, beautiful, rockstar girlfriends shortly thereafter, and they were like, "Oh, it's horrible. You will hate it. Good luck, sister. This is the worst thing ever. This whole online, there's creeps and it's disgusting." I'm looking around the table, I'm like, "Okay, hold up. You guys are total... You're the full packages, you cannot tell me that your counterparts don't exist."
Like, "Well, whatever. No, we tried it, it's horrible." So I dove in like it was my job. I have this crazy, as you know, Doryn, the social enterprising brain. And I looked at it more like an experiment, and I quite literally made dating my job, and I went full force. There were certain days I was dating four to six people per day-
Doryn Wallach:
Oh my God, that sounds awful.
Amy Nobile:
I know, it does sound awful. And guess what? I made every mistake in the book that you can make. It was almost like condensing six months of dating or a year of dating into a few months because I was determined. But at first, I was like, crappy, fuzzy pictures. I didn't write anything. I wasn't portraying myself as me. I was portraying myself the way I thought guys would want to see me, like part hero. And I was just like calling in, I'm super spiritual. It was just the guys that were attracted to me were not the right guys.
And so then I started to get scientific about it and I started to really work on my profile and pictures and dig deep within myself. I was in therapy and energy work and manifesting, and all this stuff. And all of a sudden, things started to click, and I started to really, really call in, like, wow. And I met this incredible human a couple of years ago. And I was also dating another amazing person at the same time. So it was just like, whoa. My girlfriends were like, "Are you kidding? What is happening?" And I was having a ball.
Doryn Wallach:
But they have been so mad at you. What the hell?
Amy Nobile:
They were baffled. There was all the emotions going on. And I was like, "No, no, you guys, come here." I would just grab their phone and I'd started redoing their profiles. And I was like, "What is going on here?" You're not portraying yourself as you, this is not who you are authentically. So I would redo their stuff and they would still sit there, and I'm like, "What is wrong?" And so then I was like, "Give me your password. I'm going to just be you. What's your schedule in the next month?" And I started spitting out dates for them. And they were going on more dates in a month than they had gone on any year. And then all of a sudden, little by little, they started meeting really quality people.
And one day, I was sitting there, and I thought, "Is this a thing? This can't be a thing. Is this a thing? Could I do this? Could I get paid to do this? Is this so cheesy? Is this really bad? Is this a really good idea?" And I decided to go for it. And The New York Times wrote about it really quickly before I even had a website up. And they were like, "Guess what? You better put your website up." And then the Today Show did... It just took off. I was just on the train, it took off. And now, I can't even keep up with the amount of people approaching me. My clients are 25 to 75, mostly female, some male. And that's my big mouthful of how I started that.
Doryn Wallach:
Oh my God. That's amazing. That's amazing. The problem with being such a brilliant mind like Amy is that... and entrepreneurial and creative is that you come up with these things and you have to do them, and you've exceeded them. And then you're "Okay, onto the next." I mean, it's good when you find the one that you really feel passionate about, and it takes a few, it's like dating, it takes you to the right one.
Amy Nobile:
It's true. It's true. Your brain doesn't stop and then... The message here for our fellow entrepreneurs, because a lot of listeners are just like you and I, it's, you really do have to listen to your gut. And it's great. You have all these great ideas, but then you have to listen, even if the world is... I mean, every step of the way, everyone said, "She's nuts. What are you doing now?" You know?
Doryn Wallach:
Right. I know perfect.
Amy Nobile:
So you do? You have to hone that instinct. But anyway, that's another podcast topic.
Doryn Wallach:
Yeah, exactly. That's a great idea though, actually. I need to figure that one out. So I want to first talk about where you need to be within yourself to be ready to date. Because I would imagine it's very difficult to find that place of being ready, whether you've been married for a long time or you're just coming into your 40s, which I do think as a time to figure out who you are. I'd love to know what the key is to this. What do you tell women?
Amy Nobile:
Yeah, it's interesting. I just love talking about this. I give my clients a 10-page intake form. A lot of therapists refer me. I'm sort of like part therapist, part energy worker, and a lot dating coach. But here's the deal, and I learned this really pretty quickly within myself, is that you can only meet someone as deeply as you've met yourself. And that is really important. And the first question I ask people on this intake form is, "How much have you worked on yourself? What self-care do you employ on a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly?" And it always throws people for a loop. They're "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on. I want to date, just teach me the tool.
Doryn Wallach:
That's the problem. That's the problem.
Amy Nobile:
Right. And so then I have to backtrack into it with them. And once we start to... I scratch the surface and then I get to the next layer and we get to the next layer. because here's the deal, we all carry... This is going to sound deep right now, a little too therapeutic. But we do, we carry wounds from how we saw love growing up, we carry wounds from our last hurtful relation. We carry that stuff. And if we don't really work on that and at least figure out why you're feeling hurt. Everybody has wounds, everybody. I don't care who you are. And so that is a revelation to people because you're like, "Okay, I'm 40-plus, I'm a grownup. I've done therapy. I'm really open-minded." But we still do.
Even just to be a self-aware, I get clients talking about "Okay, I really haven't honored myself that much. I'm not on my priority list. I need to really work on this stuff." That's the first major thing that we talk about before we even can start.
Doryn Wallach:
And by the way, that's kind of the premise of my podcast too, because in order to enjoy this next stage of life, we need to do the work now, and we need to work on ourselves. I have a lot of friends who are stubborn about doing work in therapy and think they have it figured out, but aren't quite sure or just talk about it a lot. And my friends that actually, unfortunately, unfortunately for them, if they're happy, I've a lot of friends who are getting divorced and they'll rush into something immediately. While again, I'm not an expert, knowing that just as a friend, I'll say, "Don't you feel you need to work on yourself first and be alone and selfish for a little bit until you figure out exactly what that is you want in somebody else?" I can see how that's really important.
Amy Nobile:
You're 100% right. And by the way, I say no a lot to people. After our first initial call, and I do a lot of first calls free of charge because I love what I do and I just want to... And I say no a lot, because I can just tell that somebody is not... I don't want to compromise success. It's not worth it. And you're absolutely right. And that's definitely the first step.
Doryn Wallach:
Well, what if people have zero interest in online dating? How do you change their minds about that? Because I know I have a lot of friends who are now single and they're like, "Uh-ah. I'm not going near that. I have no interest."
Amy Nobile:
Yeah. That's great. That's a great question, and I get it all the time, and I always smile when I get it. Here's the deal, people will say, "Oh my God, I swiped for five minutes and I wouldn't date 99% of the people on these apps." And I say, "Here's the deal. A, you're not going to meet someone in aisle six, we're in a new generation. B, if you walk down the street right now, would you date 99% of anyone you walk by? No." So here's the deal, the apps are gifts, because there are millions and millions and millions of people now on the apps. This is the way, the number one way to meet someone. But it's just the how, how do I go about doing it? Because it's really scary.
At any given day, if you dip your toe into any of the apps, it is a horrifying. And I get it because it's like, oh my God, people are coming at you. It's really, there's a strategy to it, and there's a way to go in and... I've cracked the code. There is a process so that you can feel in control of it and you can feel you are driving the process and calling in the right people and attracting the right people. There really is this process. My success rate is 80%, That's high, and so I know that it works.
Doryn Wallach:
Are there apps that you specifically like more than others? Or you're not allowed to say that?
Amy Nobile:
Oh no, no. No, it's fine. I'm not being sponsored by anybody. It's really interesting. I work with clients all over the country, like Bumble, for instance, not as good in DC as it is in Dallas. So I know which apps are good for which age ranges in what cities. And that's just has come from experience. If someone's listening and they want to dip their toe in and they're 40 plus, it's Bumble and Hinge as a general rule. Start with Bumble, it's the easiest one. It's a little bit more curated, and the women make the first move, which is great because it again puts you in the driver's seat.
Doryn Wallach:
I feel those are the ones that I've heard about.
Amy Nobile:
For your audience, it's Bumble first and then Hinge. And they're both good.
Doryn Wallach:
So just to go back a little bit, you had mentioned that you carry your childhood wounds in your relationship based on the love that you've seen or the love that you've had. How do you get unstuck from that? How does somebody move forward? You say do the work in therapy, but is there more that they can be doing or is it just a one-on-one relationship to try to figure that out?
Amy Nobile:
It's interesting, that's a heavy thing. Yes, it absolutely starts with therapy. It's one of those deep dive things, you don't have to spend a ton of money or a ton of time on it, but it's just being conscious of it. If we each sit down and think about it for a bit, it's like, oh. That's one of the questions I ask my clients, "What did love look like in your house?" And that's just a little bit of a different spin. We all have like, "Oh gosh, I had a difficult stepdad," or, "My mom left my dad," or whatever. Even if your parents were happily married, there's still dynamics that you absorbed that you could still work on. Maybe there was some disrespect going on, because I always say you accept the love you think you deserve.
And so there's all kinds of things and dynamics. So it's just being conscious of that. So I really work through that, at least begin to work through that with my clients. And then I will literally say, "Go do some therapy for three months and come back to me. If there's just too much, I know what I'm not, I'm certainly not a therapist, but I can guide." And then they'll come back and we'll talk it through and I'll say, "Okay, I think you're ready now. Let's go." So it's really just, A, exploring it within yourself. And if you need a little bit more help in digging through that, then do it.
Doryn Wallach:
So what happens now? So I've done the work and I come to you and I say, "All right, let's do this." Then what do you do?
Amy Nobile:
Yeah, I get really excited. It's my favorite thing, and we launch. And the way that we launch is, it's the 10-page intake form, and that's the first thing we do. And there's all kinds of questions on there. And some are designed because to reverse engineer, I know what questions I'm looking for, the fun, little quirky stuff I need to tease out. But here's the deal, this is really important. I said this within my, how I made the mistakes, but people really want to portray themselves the way they think others should see them.
And I, and I'm goofy, and I'm literally just what you see is what you got, I'm an open book. And I have to get to know my clients in that way. I need to know. There'll be clients who are just so serious, a CEO, and literally within 45 minutes I can see they're they're imitating people, and they've gotten voices. I'm like, "Wait, where did that come from? Oh my God, you're hilarious." So I'm teasing out really who they are, because that's the... You want to attract the right person and not the other serious CEO, but who are you, really? This is silly, but one of my clients in New York carries a blender. She travels with a blender because she's obsessed with smoothies. And she's hilarious.
I tease that out. And really, it's one of my favorite profiles I put together because you read her profile and you can't not laugh. And so the guys she's starting to attract are such good matches for her. So that's kind of where we start, we put together a strategy, which apps. I review pictures. I'm really obsessed with that, I'm really picky about it, I take a lot of my own pictures for clients. You have four seconds in that lead photo, you can't have a hat, you can't have sunglasses, no selfies, no group shots. Your sparkle has to sign in that lead photo. So that's the first little bit that we work on.
Doryn Wallach:
I have a friend who, we've been very close through her separation, and I've seen her profile and she is the most amazing woman. She is smart, she is funny, she is beautiful, she is loving. I wouldn't just say this, I don't say this about every single person I know, but she's amazing. She's amazing. She's such a good friend too. Actually, I was going to start this podcast with her, but we ended up not doing that just out of the interest of time. But I remember looking at her profile, I'd have no idea what it's doing now, but I remember looking at her profile thinking, "I just feel like you have to show how witty and funny you are, and this isn't doing it, but I don't know how to be you, witty. You need to be"-
Amy Nobile:
Totally. Totally.
Doryn Wallach:
So I get that. I get that. And I think there is this confusion about, who do I want to portray and who am I really? Or sometimes better for somebody else, like a friend or somebody like you to really call you out on who you are.
Amy Nobile:
Right. And it's awkward to be like, "I'm witty. I'm smart." Like, "Really? What are you... " So a lot of times I'll say like, "My BFF says I'm... " You know what I mean? There's just little tricks of the trade. So after we do that, this is the biggest barrier to entry besides... People can manage to put together a profile, they can speak it out, but the biggest barrier to entry for online dating really is the banter. It's the online app banter, because it's awkward. Everybody knows they're on the apps, and you've got a whole range of what people are looking for on the apps. And so the banter is like, "Who do I banter with? Ooh, what do I say? Oh my God, do I reply to this opening line?"
So the banter part is really, really tough. So I do log on as my clients for the first month or so, and we can both be logged in and they'll watch me swipe and talk, I'll watch them swipe and talk. I hand the reigns over as quickly as I can because the training wheels have to come off. But they see like who I'm deleting and why.
Doryn Wallach:
What happens if they can't banter as well as you do?
Amy Nobile:
Well, the thing is that everybody can.
Doryn Wallach:
By the way, I banter much better on texts than I do in person. I'm hysterical on text message.
Amy Nobile:
No, no, you're hysterical in every medium, Doryn, that's for sure. Yeah, you would be an excellent banterer. But yeah, some people just get... I have clients who are really shy, and they literally... I'm an on-demand coach, very unique. I feel like when you need me, you need me. So like at 7:00 PM on a Tuesday, I'll get a screenshot of like, "Oh God, what do I say back?" And I love it, I am happy to help. But everybody can banter. Because it's just being you and it's been comfortable enough to be you not throw up over your real resume. It's just like, if you would retort with something funny and goofy, then do it, say that, because that's who you want to attract.
So yeah, we work a lot on that in the first month.
Doryn Wallach:
You mentioned a couple of tips for your profile. Can you share a few of those?
Amy Nobile:
So I would say the biggest, biggest tip is, like I said to really, really be authentic and don't be afraid to tease out your goofiness. Also, what do you want? We really work on, what are we trying to achieve here? Who do we want? If it's a long-term relationship, which is 98% of my clients, because there's always 2% of other, whatever, but most people want a long-term relationship, it's okay to say that. It's okay to say, "We'll get along if, you're looking for a long-term relationship as well, you're caring, family-oriented." I think it's really important, especially at our age, let's not mess around, let's not throw the fishing pole out and see what we get. Let's be really specific about what we want. So that's a tip.
That lead photo, just to go back to that, it's astonishing to me how many people hide? They'll put a picture that's just a little grainy or it's too far away, because they're hiding. Everybody, everybody, like your best friend sees that sparkle in your eye and that smile, and that's why that's your best friend. That's the spark I want. You have to see it. It's a very uncomfortable part of the job, but it's really, really important. So that lead photo has to be outside where you can totally see the color of your eye and you're smiling, and it's that look, it's that look when your best friend walks in the room and you're like, "Uh." That's what we need. We need that for the lead photo.
Doryn Wallach:
I feel like my friends tell me that most of the time, the guys never look anything like their photo. It's always a kind of a disappointment.
Amy Nobile:
I mean, that's a broad generalization. I think that does happen. I think though, it's easy to tell once you're doing it that people, they'll use older photos. Everybody, not everybody, a lot of people lie about their ages, men and women
Doryn Wallach:
By the way. Well, by the way, just hold on a second because this is so funny, and I'm not going to say any names. But when I was scrolling my friend's Bumble, I happened to see somebody that I know, that single, and his age was way off from his real age. And I screenshot it and I texted it to him and I said, "Huh, this isn't how old you are." And he's like, "First of all, why are you on Bumble? And second of all, are you the Bumble police?" And that explained this whole story to me. And I just thought it was so funny.
Amy Nobile:
Oh my God, that's hilarious. No, it's so true. It's really true. Really grainy photos. You can tell when photos are just old or the photos don't match up. Like, the first and the third, you're like, "What decade was this, seriously?" You get the hang, you get the hang of it. But again, you're going to encounter all of that. That's just part of it.
Doryn Wallach:
You had mentioned... I'll sound old and married when you say that, but you had mentioned ghosting to me, where were just talking about a few tips, and you said, "Don't take it personally." I want to hear more about that. I don't actually know what ghosting is. Does that mean where you just drop somebody completely?
Amy Nobile:
Very good, Doryn. Very good. Yes it is.
Doryn Wallach:
I've heard it used, but I never really spent the time to be what like, "What exactly is ghosting?"
Amy Nobile:
Lucky you have never had to experience that. So that's literally truth. Like, you'll be mid-sentence with someone and all of a sudden they go away. Literally, they disappear off the app. Or you can even be in a conversation for two days, and then now it's moved to cell phone and then they disappear. And I have a whole, I don't know, four or five pages of tips from my clients that I sent initially to them just to get them used to this crazy alien world called online dating, and ghosting is one of those things that freaks people out. It feels a personal assault and it feels rejection. And it's really crappy when it happens, but you have to get used to the fact that this...
The profile is not the person, we don't know who they are. So this is a whole process and we're waiting, waiting, waiting. It's a numbers game. Someone can disappear. Guess what? That is a gift because that is a bullet dodge. That means someone's not ready. I talk a lot about grown-ups to my clients, we're looking for a grownup who's ready. So that's not a grownup, so good riddance. But you have to get in the mindset of not taking it personally. And that's hard. That's hard.
Doryn Wallach:
Oh my God, Amy, I feel like I have lived with so much guilt over this in my 20s when I was dating a lot, my early 20s. This right before I started dating Ty. I would just not call guys back when I didn't want to go on another date because I was too scared to be upfront and be like, "This isn't going to work." So they would call and call, and I would just completely drop them without any... I ghosted, I was ghosting.
Amy Nobile:
But it's was a good point. And I work a lot with clients on, this is a big deal, you go on two dates with someone or three dates. And I have a big three-date rule, after three dates, we're either cutting bait or not. We're not going to linger where we're not supposed to be.
Doryn Wallach:
That was Ty's rule when he was dating. Because we were friends and I used to hear about his dates, that's what he would do.
Amy Nobile:
No, totally. It's three days. But how do you gracefully exit something that's just one person's really into it and you're not. So it's again, I work with my clients all the time on that stuff. And at this point in our lives... It's okay when you're 20 or even in her 30s to just wiggle out, I just think accountability is really important just from an integrity standpoint now. So if you have gone on a few dates with someone and you're not... there's a way to gracefully have that conversation and you feel really good about it that you did a really nice job of telling them how you feel and gracefully-
Doryn Wallach:
Because you're a grownup.
Amy Nobile:
You're grown up.
Doryn Wallach:
You've gone in, you've helped with their profile, they find somebody they're interested in, it's time to go on a date. So, two questions. What do you recommend to do for a first date? And what kind of tips do you give for a first date?
Amy Nobile:
Yeah. This is one of my favorite, favorite tips that I learned the hard way. So for your first date, it should never, ever, ever be longer than 45 minutes, and you should never give away a whole night. Women, do not do that. I cannot tell you how many Thursday nights, Friday nights I'd be sitting there trapped, just slugging wine, looking at the clock. This is somewhat of a numbers game. And we know just by the numbers that you're not going to have chemistry with 19 out of 20 people, it's just how it works. So why not lower the stakes, lower the expectations, and go on 30-minute coffee dates or Jamba Juice dates.
That way, you're walking in with a different attitude. It's like, "I'm just going to meet a new human today, I'm going to learn one new thing from this individual. Odds are, we'll see, we'll see." And that changes everything. It changes the attitude, it changes the energy around it, and it allows you to go on more dates, because the deal is, you're not going to dip your toe in, and on the fifth person you meet, is the one. It's just not going to happen. Every once in a while, it happens. But in general, it won't. And I think people get really stuck on that. They get their hair done and their makeup done, and they go. They've put so much thought into the person they think they're meeting that inevitably, they're going to fall short of their expectations. So that's a really big one.
Doryn Wallach:
Yeah. No, that makes sense. It also sounds much more pleasurable.
Amy Nobile:
I would post up, I'm not even kidding. I would post up at a coffee shop of my choice and I would just space the dates out and give myself some cushion in between-
Doryn Wallach:
Write a book or something.
Amy Nobile:
I'm up with the next thing. No. And I would sit there in my Lululemons and a baseball hat. I mean, every once in a while, maybe jeans and a t-shirt, and I would set the expectation right up front, "Listen, I'm coming from a workout, I'm not glamorous." And it just changed everything and it put me in the driver's seat. It gave me my power back. So I wasn't hoping to be chosen. I wasn't hoping he would like me. I was sitting there like, "Hey, what's going on?"
Doryn Wallach:
Do you do that so that on the next date you just look amazing?
Amy Nobile:
Hello. Yes. It's strategic.
Doryn Wallach:
I was just what to say this is all strategic.
Amy Nobile:
Oh, completely. That would happen. That would really happen where then I'd have a little black sun dress on and they're like, "Whoa." Exactly. Exactly.
Doryn Wallach:
Right. If it came to that date based on the first one. Then they were meant to be. If they don't love you in your workout clothes-
Amy Nobile:
Completely. I'm not saying ditch the mascara and gloss. I mean, you can look cute and workout clothes. I'm just saying, don't go overboard and show up like, "Now, I'm here." They have to show up for you.
Doryn Wallach:
So you go on that first date now, what are the rules today? You like the guy, are we in an age and a time where there's no games? I remember reading when I was in my 20s, remember that book?
Amy Nobile:
The Rules.
Doryn Wallach:
The Rules. And then men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.
Amy Nobile:
Yeah. John Gray.
Doryn Wallach:
Both of those books.
Amy Nobile:
I'm currently writing the next version of The Rules.
Doryn Wallach:
Oh, good.
Amy Nobile:
Yeah. Here's the deal, there are no games. I do believe in chivalry and I don't care what anybody says about that, I really don't care. I know that we are in an age of equality and oh, I'm a feminist. I get it, I'm all about... My whole career has been about empowering women, I get it, but I like chivalry. I just do. And so if you're texting, texting with someone for a day or two days and it's going on and on, and they're not asking you out, they're not a grownup, they're not ready, just delete them. Every once in a while, it's maybe you give a little nudge like, "All right, let's grab coffee, this is going on and on."
But nine times out of 10, he's not ready. And when you're going on that date, I think it's great to reach for your purse, I like chivalry, I like it when the guy pays, I really don't care what anyone thinks about that? But in terms of games, you remember The Rules, it was like, wait three days to respond. It's no, no, no, we're not doing that. Two grownups showing up for each other, the key is consistency.
Doryn Wallach:
I think that book kind of ruined dating actually.
Amy Nobile:
That book pisses me off, I'm sorry.
Doryn Wallach:
People really followed it for years, and then everyone was confused about what to do and not to do, and even if you wanted to do it or not do it.
Amy Nobile:
Right. And then he's just not that into you came out.
Doryn Wallach:
All right, I forgot about that one.
Amy Nobile:
That was an assault on women, like, "He's just not that into you." And it's like "Oh my God, put us back in the driver's seat." I think behave the way you want reflected back to you, two grownups showing up for each other who are consistent with each other every single day. Every single day, there's no disappearing act, there's no chase the cat and mouse, there's no like "Oh, I'm just not going to respond." No, it's very genuine. That's what we're looking for here, is a genuine, authentic connection that's real, that guess what? It's going to be messy, we're going to share with each other. You want someone who's a little self-actualized, or at least open to it.
If you're spiritual, you want someone who's on that path too. These are the kinds of conversations you want to be having. And I coach my clients all the time on how to get there fast because you know what, I see so many people talking about travel and the weather, and just surface stuff for four days, five days. No, no, no, by your second or third date, you really should be talking about this stuff at this age. And so that's what it's about. It just blows my mind that people waste a lot of time playing a little coy game of trying to be who they think they should be.
Doryn Wallach:
And there's no time for that now. In your 20s, there was time, there's no time for that. That can be used in so many different parts of our lives.
Amy Nobile:
Great. And also just ask for what you want. It's just amazing, really ask for what you want, have those conversations pretty quickly. Don't wait three months in and it's like he doesn't want to get married again. You should have had that conversation, or what about monogamy? There's so many couples that just assume, they just keep going, and then all of a sudden, someone finds their significant others assemble profiles, still there. We need to be having these really real conversations pretty early on.
Doryn Wallach:
It's so funny because on my first date with Tai, Tai is my husband in case, hopes it's clear.
Amy Nobile:
Hopefully, I really hope so at this point.
Doryn Wallach:
He grew up in a town that I knew I never wanted to live in, among other things. When I went on a first day, I was very upfront, I was like, "Just so you know, I'm never living in that town." I was going down the list, and to this day, he's like, "It was our first date, you're really letting me know." I'm like, "You know what, if you don't like me from the first date, then you're probably not going to like me in a few years. If you don't like who I am, I just need that." I'm like that with any relationship, I am who I am, and if you don't like me, then we're not going to be friends. And that's okay with me.
Amy Nobile:
Totally. And that's a beautiful, but very unique trait, Doreen, because so many people are so afraid to ask for what they want right away, and there are a lot of women we've been conditioned to be a chameleon, and so we're taking on the traits of the guy. And it's like no, especially at this age. So I do a lot of coaching around that. When you're just entering a new relationship, I have a lot of clients who keep me on just for the coaching part so that they can stay authentic to who they are as you build foundation of this new relationship, it's really important.
Doryn Wallach:
Is it hard though? I would imagine obviously the pool is smaller and it's not as easy, but do you feel that you have to adapt a little bit more? There are people who are very set in their ways, so I would think that in general, in life, at this point of our lives, we have to just be more open-minded and more adaptable to situations. I think that's something I've learned about myself.
Amy Nobile:
Totally.
Doryn Wallach:
I would imagine that's important in dating too, where you can't just go in there with, "This is what I want, this is not about... " And you have to at least allow yourself to be surprised. There might be something that comes up.
Amy Nobile:
No, completely. I think that's an excellent point, especially for this audience, 40 plus, you need to know and identify how open someone is to evolution. And I think some sometimes it's we really know these are the core values and as long as I have these, I'm good. And sure, there are a lot of people and let's face it, a lot of men at this age who, look at their role models, Beaver Cleveland. There's a lot of men in this pool who don't really know how to change, or they're not open to therapy, or they're not open to evolution. And most of my clients want someone who can evolve a little bit.
And so that's really, really important, and there's all kinds of indicators at the very beginning whether or not someone's open to evolve. Sometimes my client knows exactly, once we identify the core values of who we're looking for, and we didn't really talk about that, but that's one of the big things we have to do, it's not your type, it's more like what we're going to look at from the inside out. Sometimes it's okay, it's fine if that person's not open to change as long as they have these family core values, I'm good with that, but more often than not, that's another overlooked conversation.
How much have you worked on yourself? How much are you open to evolution? I'm a meditator, does that freak you out? Or are you curious about that? At least curious. So it's having those kinds of conversations.
Doryn Wallach:
Right. I think it has to be in both directions, it's important.
Amy Nobile:
Totally.
Doryn Wallach:
My last question in all of this, and I feel there will be a lot of follow-up questions, I'm sure from listeners, but what was the biggest mistake that you made when you were dating, number one that you learned from?
Amy Nobile:
The biggest overall mistake which has really woven its way into the core of my business is, I didn't look closely enough at the core values first and I was just looking at who I was attracted to. We all have a type, we all think we have a type, we get so conditioned, you don't even realize how conditioned you are to visually what you're attracted to. And once I went to therapy, I did a bunch of things, and once I realized "Oh my gosh, okay, I'm looking at this the wrong way. I need to look at core values and attributes first." And that's when I started to cast my net differently and I was dating, it wasn't about height, and it wasn't about hair. I had of course, my non-negotiables like teeth, I just have a teeth thing, but you're allowed to have those.
Doryn Wallach:
Yeah. I get that.
Amy Nobile:
But I do this exercise of clients where I give them this blank piece of paper and I'm like "Okay, I want you to fill 20 minutes, I want you to fill this up with every attribute of your ideal dream person. Take your time." And they fill it out and take and then they give it to me before COVID, whatever. And I rip it up into tiny little pieces, and they're like, "What? That's a lot of work." And then I'd give them another piece of paper and I say, "Think of someone non-romantic in your life who brings you total joy. It can be a nephew, it can be your mother, and write their core qualities down. And that's your person, that's your person, and it's your person every time."
And that is a really eye-opening exercise to do because it really forces you to get out of the stereotypes you have built and really focus on those core qualities. I'll be swiping for a client, and they're like, "Why did you swipe on this client?" And I'm like, "Look at what they wrote." And so many of those words match yours. The last three clients that found love said, all three of them, I never would've swiped on that person. So I think it's really, really important to keep that in mind.
Doryn Wallach:
I totally get that because I have a few best friends that I could totally run away with.
Amy Nobile:
Oh, my girlfriends and I joke all the time, we're just like, "Oh my God." We'd literally live in a commune, they'll all be dead, the guys will be dead and we'll just play Mahjong and drank, seriously.
Doryn Wallach:
Oh my God, one of my best friends, we always talk about one day when we run away and travel, when we're old and we live our lives together. I don't know if that's okay, but we do.
Amy Nobile:
It's fine. In fact, that's really what we're facing, let's be honest.
Doryn Wallach:
Seriously, I had a girlfriend say to me the other day, TMI, but she was like, "I just wish you had different anatomy." And I'm like, "I know, I'm sorry." I'm like, "I'm so sorry." I'm like, "It would be perfect." She's like, "Oh, I don't know."
Amy Nobile:
That's so funny. That's so something I'd say. That's really funny.
Doryn Wallach:
All right. Amy, this is amazing, I'm so excited. This was actually a really fun topic even if I know nothing about it, I love talking about this-
Amy Nobile:
I think you know more than you think you know.
Doryn Wallach:
I know. Maybe I'll intern for you.
Amy Nobile:
Oh my God, totally. You can banter, you can ghost, you can do all this things.
Doryn Wallach:
I need to have you back on to talk about, we need kind of what you do for figuring out your career and what you want to do.
Amy Nobile:
I think it would be cool to have a few female, I think that's just a really cool discussion to have, like what ideas, an idea or not, or how do you...
Doryn Wallach:
But again, you have to do the work before you even figure that out, which is a whole, again, a whole other podcast. Tell my listeners where they can find you.
Amy Nobile:
Yeah. Thank you so much. My website is Loveamy.co. I know, I'm confusing, so Loveamy.co. And if you'd be so kind, I really need Instagram followers, and it's Love.amy.nyc, because that would be super helpful.
Doryn Wallach:
Also, go to Amazon and look at any of Amy's books because they will help you with different chapters on your life. And it was when I meant you that I learnt after that you were the author of the book I had read, and I was so happy to meet you. When I was reading that book, I I'm like, "I want to know who wrote this because I feel like we would be really good friends."
Amy Nobile:
And here we are.
Doryn Wallach:
And here we are. All right. Well, thank you again for coming on the show.
Amy Nobile:
Thank you.
Doryn Wallach:
And I hope you're safe and well, I saw that you're with your babies, so I'm happy.
Amy Nobile:
Thank you so much, Doreen, this was a total blast, I'm honored to be on the show again.
Doryn Wallach:
Oh, no problem. I love having you, and we'll have you back again, I'm sure there will be another topic that we'll cover.
Amy Nobile:
Okay. Perfect.
Doryn Wallach:
Okay. Take care.
Amy Nobile:
Okay. Thanks. Bye.
